# Is it true....do you really know when it's time?



## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

We have a 9 yr old German Shepherd who is the heart of this family. We could not have asked for a better companion for our family. He has aged quickly in the last year or so. He had torn cruciates in both of his back knees and was not a candidate for surgery so we bed rested him for 3 months and followed all orders to a tee. Well.....arthritis has set in and is pretty aggressive. He is on a array of suppliments as well as tramadol and even with all that help he cannot go into the sit position...but it keeps him comfortable enough to keep up on small walks. So today I had to leave the house for a couple of hours (I am usually home with him) I came home he was crying on the kitchen floor I didn't know why at first, so as I watched him I realized he had tried to get up off the tile floor and due to the lameness in his back legs and his front legs having no traction on tile he couldn't get up. He tried and tried, I tried to harness him with a towel which he was obviously unhappy about. Our entire house with the exception of one bedroom on the second level is tile or wood, we have rugs placed everywhere, we have about 4 beds on the main level, but yet he likes to be on the tile. So I guess my question is as more and more activities become impossible or painful even with meds.....every one always says you'll know when it's time, is that true? On his bad days I think I know we should start preparing for what is inevitable, but on his good days (or good times as most days are a mix of both) I think we can keep trying things, keep adding things doing things to make him more comfortable....but then I feel guilty am I doing it all for him or me? I am so sorry if this is rambled, I am crying and scattered as I didn't ever want to think we'd be even close to saying goodbye to him


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## msvette2u (Mar 20, 2006)

It's heartbreaking...but sometimes it is a kindness.
If the dog cannot be "himself" without humiliating himself (and it sounds like he's reached that point) it may be time.
Yes, in our hearts we know, but sometimes our minds tell us to hang on.
But for them...it's all about quality of life.

Our senior Basset we'd only had 11mos. began collapsing, he could not get up, and could not make it to the door. He'd often pee a puddle right where he stood. When we brought him in to the vet, she told us he was just too painful to get up and get out the door. She also found a heart murmur. And he needed another dental (to add to the $900 one we did on him upon intake as a foster dog!!)

He would not take tramadol at all. Hated the taste. I gave him vicoden (cut into pieces) the last week of his life just to ease his pain. We then brought him in for his final visit. 

If your dog is losing his dignity...if he isn't "himself" any longer and if he's in pain most the time, then it is probably time.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

Yes... I believe so. You will know when your pet has lost that joy and longing to go forward. And, I truly believe that only YOU will know what that threshold is for your pet. In retrospect, I have, on a couple of occasions, waited longer than I should have but I think I would rather err on that side than the other... I am someone who will try any reasonable therapy first.


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

Ever since we watched our neighbors hold on to their Pit mix for at least 4 years after it was obvious to everyone else....I have always swore I would rather do it a day early than a day late. I am finding that is so much easier said than done. I try and remind myself that it will never get better and he has been far too good of a dog to let him suffer even for a minute, but then other times he'll be outside following the kids around and I can't imagine not seeing that. Like right now he just came over sniffed me and licked the tears on my cheek....such a sweet boy.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

i am so sorry. there is a quality of life checklist in either the health or senior or maybe the preparing to say good-bye section, sorry i can't remember which right now. might be helpful for you to read that. it's so hard to know when the right time is, and harder yet to make the decision. take care, many blessings.


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## LifeofRiley (Oct 20, 2011)

It is so hard to see our beloved pets age. My last dog also had a lot of mobility problems at the end... I was very bonded to this dog and I will admit that it took me a long time to come to terms with his decline. However, as long as he showed excitement and interest to get up and go out (whether or not he needed a little help) I saw that as his way of telling me he wanted to keep going. I lost him around this time last year. I am still not over it. My heart goes out to you.


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

Thank you all for your kind words. Kaos shows excitement (as in coming to greet us at doors, or in the morning, or coming to the door when he sees you headed outside) probably about 1/2 the time. Even when we are all in the living room and the younger dog is crated (to give him some peace) he will come in lay his head down for us all to pet and then go to the other room and sleep. I definetely have a lot to think about and discuss with my husband.....as for the kids I can't even begin to imagine how to deal with that.


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## BowWowMeow (May 7, 2007)

It seems a lot more straightforward when it's someone else's animal. When it's your own it's a lot harder to assess quality of life issues. My cat is 19 and having a tough time right now and I really can't imagine letting her go. She has bounced back so many times in the past that I can't imagine a time when she won't bounce back. It really is so tough to imagine them gone. 

What are you supplementing with? Does he have an orthopedic bed? Does he have an adaptive harness? That makes it much easier to assist him when he falls down or when you need to do steps, etc. with him. 

For now I would block him from the kitchen when you go out (if that's possible). 

I would start a new thread detailing his issues and ask for suggestions.


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## Anja1Blue (Feb 27, 2008)

Firstly I am so sorry for what you and your dog are going through - no matter how many times you are faced with this kind of decision it doesn't get any easier. The way I look at it, having had to face the end of my companion animals lives many times over the years, is that basically it is a simple formula - when the bad days outnumber the good (and the hard part is being objective about it. Two good hours out of a day and 22 bad ones is not quality of life) - it is time to say goodbye. I do believe that they let us know when they have had enough, the problem is most of us choose to ignore that "look" because we love them so much and don't want them to leave us. It's selfish in a way, letting them linger because of what WE want. (And then there's the guilt thing - let them go too soon and we will always regret it, wait until they are in extremis and we regret making them suffer unnecessarily. It's a very fine line.) I think you just have to sit down with your family - kids included - and, painful though it might be, look at your dog's life from his perspective. Put yourselves in his place and think about what he would say to you if he could. Today might not be the day, nor next week - but it is better to start facing (as I think you are doing) the inevitable ahead of time rather than when that time has run out. In the meantime, as Ruth said, make sure he has comfortable bedding away from the tile, and use a properly designed harness (plenty out there) to help him get around. My heart goes out to you all........:hugs: 
____________________________________________
Susan

Anja SchH3 GSD
Conor GSD
Blue BH WH T1 GSD - waiting at the Bridge :angel:


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## NancyJ (Jun 15, 2003)

I am sorry with what you are going through-it never gets easier.

I can't answer your question. After owning dogs for almost 40 years, I still don't "know the time" and for some I have kicked myself for waiting too long but for others I wonder if we couldnt have done more......


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## kennajo (May 20, 2011)

All I can say is I feel your pain going through the same with my 14 yr old Shepherd mix. Can't imagine not seeing him here ,but see his pain and age.


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## Kittilicious (Sep 25, 2011)

I look at it this way - if the question is weighing on your mind and you are coming here for reassurance that it is time, then it's probably time. I, too, am one of those people who waited too long. I gave him probably a year more than I should have, it was a miserable year for him - very few happy times.


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks again for all of your support and insight. My husband bless his heart can't fix it so he doesn't know what to do and keeps saying "we'll take it one day at a time and hopefully he'll bounce back tomorrow" As for the quality of life....hard to assess. Is sleeping in his crate (door open, goes in on own will) most of the day and night a poor quality of life or is it just part of aging? He doesn't come out often...for example, I slept in this morning not feeling well. My husband and kids had been up for 2.5 hrs when I got up and Kaos still hadn't gotten up to say good morning. He only came out after I fixed his breakfast and showed it to him and then put it in his feeder. As for eating if I add canned food he is all over it , if I don't add canned...he won't touch it. He still drinks. If you get a leash he still gets so excited even though he can't go far...he has never turned down a walk. A couple things on walks have changed, usually toward the end he is tired and I notice his front paw will turn under instead of stepping down, so he usually trips 1 time toward the end of the walk...he doesn't fall, just kind of stumbles. Also not sure if this is TMI and insignificant...but in until he was about 8 he NEVER pooped on a walk, he always waited....now he does it every walk! He has never been much for strangers but tolerated them, now he is much less tolerant of people outside "his circle" (including the vet who after 6 yrs of liking him now has to be muzzled for all appts) 
As to the other questions, he has 2 orthopedic beds, one is in his crate to which the door is always open. With our layout the only way I can see to keep him out of the kitchen when we're gone is shut his crate. We do not have a rear harness, is that something that stays on all the time? 
He eats Castor/Pollux weight management, with a little Wellness core mixed in and then some canned.
He takes
50mg tramadol up to 4x a day
2500 glucosamine/chondroiton/msm mix
100mg Boswelia
100 mg Turmeric
100mg Yucca
100 mg Rosemary
3000 fish oil
800iu vit e
1500 mg Vit C
I think that is it, although I feel like I am forgetting something. Thank you again.


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

Have any of you with seniors ever used non slip socks or boots?


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

Update**
So after my husband got home from the World Series on Friday we stayed up discussing Kaos. We made a list of 5 things that he loves to help assess quality of life as unbiased as possible. Wouldn't you know it, the last 2 days Kaos has been greeting us about 75% of the time, spending more time in the room with us rather than retreating to his crate to sleep. He went and got his leash for his walks around the block, he retrieved his ball with the boys and he even gave the puppy a few good runs around the back yard. I think he has bad times just to test how upset I'll get to make sure I still love him....:wub: So as for now we will block the kitchen while we are gone and look into non slip socks and keep on keeping on, with his happiness and comfort our first priority. On a good note, my husband decided it wouldn't be fair to K to leave him with a dog sitter....so I think I get out of holidays with the in-laws


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## BR870 (May 15, 2011)

Well sounds like it is quite time yet then... Love him and enjoy him and rejoice that he is still with you

I just had to put a cat down a week or so ago, and have another that's knocking on deaths door. Both are FIV+ but they are old and have lived full lives. When it was time to put Einstein down, I hesitated and procrastinated... I regret it now. I guess I was hoping he would bounce back alittle and show he had it in him like Kaos did for you... He never did. 

Eventually you will know when its enough...


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## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

Yes you will know when its time, if you are honest with yourself and don't let your emotion play into it.

Skye would do just what your dog does- would be "blah" for a few days and it seems like everytime I made the decision "it was time" she would get all happy go lucky on me again. (this happened 3 or 4 times over a 18 month period- vet probably got tired of seeing me) She had also lost complete bowel control and constantly "leaked" for the last 2-3 months (i was constantly washing her backside) but she was mentally alert and didn't seem to be in much pain it was just an inconvenience to me. She had major hip problems that went from bad to worse pretty quick

I came home one Thursday night and she had bloody diarrhea and had a very hard time getting up. I made the decision that night that it was time-regardless if she "bounced" back. Her Blah days were starting to outnumber her good days. I went to my dad's house that night and dug her grave because i knew I would be a total mess that day. Of course the whole ride the vets that Saturday she was all happy (she LOVED riding in the car) I stopped at McDonalds and got her a hamburger and french fries. She was so alert at the vets that they had to sedate her first- it was killing me that she was having a good day, but I still knew it was time. Sometimes I feel like maybe I did it too soon, (bshe was 16 years old) but I would MUCH rather do it too soon I think than to have her suffer. 

That dog was part of my soul and I have not been the same since she left 5 years ago. :rip:

I look forward to having that much time and that much of a bond with Dooney. Good luck with your decision and your situation, and know that you are not alone. :hugs:


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

BR870 sorry about the loss of your cat. That is tough to deal with, we have a 12.5 yr siamese who still rules the roost, but that won't last forever. We are truly just enjoying every day....one day at a time. He is up and at'em this morning even jumping out of bed when he heard the air brakes on the school bus outside, he used to cry every day at the door when the bus picked up the kids in the morning and he whined every afternoon when it dropped them back off. So I was happy to see him react to it this morning!
Dooneysmom, wow 16 yrs what a blessing. Kaos has left such an impression on my heart after his 9 yrs I can't imagine having 16!! I hope you do get that bond and relationship with your new puppy I am sure you will, although I think you will always have a empty spot for your older dog. I told my husband I wish we could have Kaos cloned, he truly is such a great dog. Hopefully we can remain unemotional, which is why we made the top 5 list......I agree with you that I would rather not wait until it is too late for him to go with dignity,he's far too good to me for me not to return the favor.


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## robk (Jun 16, 2011)

This is the worst part of having pets in your life.


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## BlackPuppy (Mar 29, 2007)

It's so hard, but it sounds like you have a plan. Obviously, pain and immobility are the huge factors in my decisions. 

I said you have rugs down, and this suggestion isn't necessarily for you, but others might find it helpful. I recently bought some FLOR carpet tiles to bridge my slippery floor for the dogs. They come in several price ranges and are easy to clean. The backing is rubberized and doesn't slip unless my dogs get really crazy (for a series of 4 tiles). And the Flor system has adhesive dots that hold the tiles together. But I heard some people also use duct tape.


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## TrickyShepherd (Aug 15, 2011)

He sounds like a wonderful dog, and a true companion. I'm so sorry that you all have come to this part in having animals. By far the worst and most painful part of having them.

They let you know when it's time. My golden retriever was 13 1/2 when I had to make that decision. She got sick the last few weeks of January this year, we did everything to get her back on her feet. Medication (pills, IVs, shots), supplements, vet visits twice a week (sometimes more often). She was always a fighter.. always a tough dog with a huge love for life.... so we fought for her. Everything seemed to be getting better the last week of Jan into the first few days of Feb. Peaches started eating a bit more, drinking, taking her meds like a champ, acting like herself. Thought she was snapping out of it. The morning of Feb. 5th... She wouldn't drink, wouldn't eat... not even people food. She was a pig.... would eat anything (without our permission.. she was a sneaky thief!)... so when she turned down the yummiest left overs in the fridge... I knew things weren't right. Went to the vet, and found out her tests came back.... she didn't just have the infection... she had cancer as well. We could have put her on medications for it, did more tests and treatments...... but, I looked into her eyes, and saw what I feared the most... she had no sparkle in her eyes, no fire, nothing. She went from a fun loving, happy, high spirited dog.... to a miserable, life-less, sad soul. She didn't care about food or her tennis balls, she didn't even perk up when she was getting belly rubs... all things that she loved. I knew then that she had given up. At that point... you have to do the biggest test of love and devotion.... let them free from their pains, and say goodbye. The hardest and most painful thing to go through. They give you so many years of selfless love, loyalty, happiness, and are the ones that never turned away.... I couldn't let her suffer on my behalf. 

Your dog will let you know.... you just have to listen. We can't really tell you on here when that exact time comes, that's something that's between dog and owner. Just don't let emotion get in the way... you'll regret it if you do. Hear what you vet tells you, look into what quality of life your dog still has, and look for the signs from him. You know your dog better then anyone else.... you'll see when he's ready. Enjoy the time you do have with him. Sending my prayers and thoughts your way!


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## Mary&Stella (Jan 1, 2011)

I so agree with your dog will tell you, its coming up on 1 year since I lost by darling Dobir Ralph, she was almost 14. In her last year she had 2 surgeries to remove a large growth from her rear, the first surgery she bounced back really well, the second not so much, we had to feed her liquid food for a while and then almost always help her up from her down position, that being said we had 5 wonderful last months with her, she wore a shoe on her bad foot, and yes I think they provided a bit of traction, boy they did smell like old running shoes though, I noticed than when helping her up or down stairs up off her bed and just simply the act of putting on her sock and shoe these were things that Ralph would not have done had she been her normal.Anyway to make a long story short the day before the desision was made she would not eat diner, or people food nothing, we went to bed and the next morning Ralph did not want to move, I really believe she had the look in her eye that said mom I am done here its OK, of course I called the vet he came over a short time later and Ralph died in her bed with her mom cradeling her in my arms, you know when its time and they know too, its hard not to be selfish and want more time but I think in some way its a blessing to be able to make the decision, chose when and where, more than can be said for some beloved pets or even people! My thoughts are with you, enjoy the time remaining, ... My heart goes out to you and to everyone that posts here about there fur kids.
:hugs:


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

Thank you again to all of you who have shared your advice and stories. I keep tearing up reading them. It is so hard and such an emotional issue it is hard to leave the emotion out of it. I talked with a friend of mine who recently had to make that decision for her Doberman, who was Kaos' age and she said they also had a list of top 5 favorites and it helped them to look at their dog as an outsider with no emotional ties would look at their dog's quality of life. She sees K about 2x a week and said that she still sees that spark in him, but wouldn't hesitate to tell me if she thought he were suffering. So we will cherish each good day and be truly watchful on his not so good days. Thank you again!


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

How old are your kids? Mine were 11,12 and 15 when we had to put down our 12.5 yr old yellow lab. He had been aging, but still fine, and all of a sudden went down in pretty much one day. They think he had a tumor that finally ate into a large vascular vein and was bleeding internally. Thankfully, there was no question about it. I had been preparing my kids for it for the last 6 months or so. We all 5 went to the vet, so they knew what was going on, and we all stayed in there and said goodbye as he slipped away. It was extremely difficult, and we sobbed the rest of that day and night, but we'd already fortunately planned to leave that Sunday am (this happened on a Sat) to go the the Oregon Coast for spring break. It actually was the best thing, since we didn't have to be home without a dog right away.  Thank god my poor 19 yr old nephew (who was going to stay at our house) didn't have to deal with it or find him. He was good til the end, the old dog, planning it so it was us. ♥

I think your kids will understand. The hole in their heart will still be large--and I tell them it will never be the same. It will be a scar--but those scars just show how much we've loved--and that a heart without scars is a heart that's never gotten to experience the beauty, the faithfulness, the deep and unwavering love and devotion of a dog. 

Wishing you well.


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

Thank you Rocketdog. My kids are 10, 7 and 2. They have never known a life without Kaos. They do notice him getting less agile, less attentive, etc. They are very protective of him and constantly make sure they walk around him rather than making him move and they bring treats to him. We joke that he is on the EILF (everything in life is free) program:blush: We are very open and honest that 9 is old for a GSD with arthritis. We do not try to hide that fact that he is getting older and eventually he will pass. Here's where we are conflicted.....our vet feels it is not best to tell the children if we set up a final appt. He feels that then all of the childrens interactions with him from that point on will be filled with sadness which Kaos would pick up on, he also advised that when the time comes we don't bring the children, and perhaps just tell them that Kaos got sick, we took him to the vet and he passed on, rather than telling them we were responsible for that decision. Our vet feels that if we do it on a Friday for example while they are at school that way we have the weekend to help them cope? Any opinions? My children have dealt with unexpected death in people unfortunately so they understand the finality of it.....I think the vet was concerned that until they are old enough to be objective they would have a hard time accepting the fact we made the decision rather than it occuring naturally.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

Its a very tough thing to face. I had to face it when i was 14 with my cat. Princess had been my best friend from the time i was 5. She got really sick one day. The infection got her and spread so fast... Looking back, i let her go too long. She had lost weight quickly, she was so weak she couldnt eat. We took her into the vet. The vet had hope she could pull through because she'd seen worse. We went home with antibiotics, prescription canned food and some syringes to feed her with. Princess tried so hard to bounce back. I skipped school for a week to take care of her around the clock. Friday morning, i woke up and she was just so weak. She gave me that look and I just broke down. That sparkle she always had was fading and I was watching it fade. Twenty minutes later we were at the vet and I was a total wreck. I didnt allow my mom in the room and as soon as the vet gave her the shot, i ran her out too. Princess let out what I can only assume was a sign of relief, touched her paw to my hand like she used to do when she was trying to comfort me and she was gone seconds later. I let her go too long and i regret it. She tried to tell me a couple days after that first vet visit and I didnt listen. I would much rather let them go too soon, than wait til it had gone too far. I dont want it to reach the point where the bad days out number the good days ever again. When the time comes to make that decision we all dread, I would want them to go on a good day. Princess has been gone 10 years this past October 5, 2011 and I still shatter to pieces when I think about her. Its an almost impossible decision to make. They do tell us. We just have to be able to listen and see. Bouncing back doesnt always mean bouncing back unfortunately. Best i can offer is listen closely and he'll tell you when he's ready.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

mysweetkaos said:


> A couple things on walks have changed, usually toward the end he is tired and I notice his front paw will turn under instead of stepping down, so he usually trips 1 time toward the end of the walk...he doesn't fall, just kind of stumbles. Also not sure if this is TMI and insignificant...but in until he was about 8 he NEVER pooped on a walk, he always waited....now he does it every walk!


That's not insignificant. It means he has some neurological issues going on. THe nerves aren't quite communicating with the brain and so there is some loss of musle control. My old GSD mix went through this in her old age. She would poop while walking, or just standing there, or sometimes in her sleep, because she just didn't feel it coming.

With my old girl, it got to the point where I just had to pick a day and put it on the calendar. She wasn't in pain, but she was deaf and mostly blind, often unable to get up without my help, and had lost a lot of muscle control. She still ate like a horse, enjoyed short walks once she got up and going in the right direction. But her quality of life was just not there, and it wasn't going to get any better, and I didn't want her to simply keep getting worse and worse. I'd BTDT with other pets, and I didn't want it to go that way for her. Better a day early than a day late, right?

Well, the day came, and it was as though she'd read the calendar. That morning she did not eat, and by afternoon, she could not stand. I carried her outside to potty, and she simply fell over. I carried her back inside and she lay on the rug on her side. When the vet came over, she didn't even lift her head. If there had been any doubt in my mind whether the time was right, that doubt was totally removed. 

Sometimes, you just have to take the initiative and choose a date. You can always postpone if your dog seems to be feeling better, but then again, my personal feeling is that I'd like to end things on a good note, rather than wait for suffering to make sure my decision is correct. 

In short, yes, it's true, you really will know.


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## KZoppa (Aug 14, 2010)

mysweetkaos said:


> Thank you Rocketdog. My kids are 10, 7 and 2. They have never known a life without Kaos. They do notice him getting less agile, less attentive, etc. They are very protective of him and constantly make sure they walk around him rather than making him move and they bring treats to him. We joke that he is on the EILF (everything in life is free) program:blush: We are very open and honest that 9 is old for a GSD with arthritis. We do not try to hide that fact that he is getting older and eventually he will pass. Here's where we are conflicted.....our vet feels it is not best to tell the children if we set up a final appt. He feels that then all of the childrens interactions with him from that point on will be filled with sadness which Kaos would pick up on, he also advised that when the time comes we don't bring the children, and perhaps just tell them that Kaos got sick, we took him to the vet and he passed on, rather than telling them we were responsible for that decision. Our vet feels that if we do it on a Friday for example while they are at school that way we have the weekend to help them cope? Any opinions? My children have dealt with unexpected death in people unfortunately so they understand the finality of it.....I think the vet was concerned that until they are old enough to be objective they would have a hard time accepting the fact we made the decision rather than it occuring naturally.


 
having been a kid myself when I had my best friend put to sleep, I would have hated my parents if they'd done it without me there and able to say goodbye. Your kids have been there through his life. They may be young but they are old enough to be able to say goodbye and it might be easier to understand if they're able to be there. I DO agree with the friday thing so they have the weekend to begin adjusting. Your 10 year old is definitely old enough to understand that you are providing a kindness instead of letting him suffer. If they're already experienced in the finality of death, it wont be any big surprise but it will hit close to home. Perhaps sit down with each of your oldest individually and explain to them that you are going to allow the vet to put your boy to sleep and that he wont wake up and come home, BUT he will no longer be in pain and when he is with God (if thats your choice), he will be watching over your family and waiting for the day you can all be together again? I dont think lying to them about it would be the way to go. You can even let them know that though your "pup" will be gone, he is up there picking out your families next perfect companion paw picked by him. 

I'm a firm believer that when one leaves, they guide us to another whether its sooner or later than we would expect. They know when the right time is to send another. We just have to listen to him.


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

Thank you freestep for your advice and for validating that him "going" on a walk is a sign. That's what I thought...but never having had a aging dog as an adult I question whether I just read too much into his changes. I tend to overthink. Kzoppa, thank you, you have given me much to think about regarding the kids, you make some very good points...thank you. My pets I grew up with had died @home of natural causes so I didn't have any first hand experience with having to make that choice. Your story of your cat brought tears to my eyes, I grew up with a cat Daisy who passed when I was 13, I don't think I left my bed for 3 days...and 6 months later my dad brought home a kitten that I didn't want anything to do with @ first...my parents just had to put her down shortly after she turned 21! Funny you should mention them choosing another pet for you. I have had that feeling more than once. We used to do some fostering, but Kaos in his prime years was downright intolerable of other dogs playing with "his kids" so with the kids it was so hard to crate and rotate constantly. Well over the summer a rescue group approached us asking us to foster a GSD/Mastiff x puppy, I told them there was no way Kaos would go for that. Sure enough over the weekend we were helping out @ an event for them and Kaos was ignoring all the puppies as he always did.....except one. We agreed to do a trial foster and Kaos really took to him, so we adopted our Sherman Tank. I've mentioned to my husband I feel like Kaos knows he's getting older and is helping this puppy to learn how to take care of his family before he passes. Maybe it's not such a silly idea after all......


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## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

KZoppa said:


> having been a kid myself when I had my best friend put to sleep, I would have hated my parents if they'd done it without me there and able to say goodbye. Your kids have been there through his life. They may be young but they are old enough to be able to say goodbye and it might be easier to understand if they're able to be there. I DO agree with the friday thing so they have the weekend to begin adjusting. Your 10 year old is definitely old enough to understand that you are providing a kindness instead of letting him suffer. If they're already experienced in the finality of death, it wont be any big surprise but it will hit close to home. Perhaps sit down with each of your oldest individually and explain to them that you are going to allow the vet to put your boy to sleep and that he wont wake up and come home, BUT he will no longer be in pain and when he is with God (if thats your choice), he will be watching over your family and waiting for the day you can all be together again? I dont think lying to them about it would be the way to go. You can even let them know that though your "pup" will be gone, he is up there picking out your families next perfect companion paw picked by him.
> 
> I'm a firm believer that when one leaves, they guide us to another whether its sooner or later than we would expect. They know when the right time is to send another. We just have to listen to him.


I think it depends on your kids- same way with the dog- they are your kids and you know best what they can and can't handle. My very first dog was PTS on my mom's bday when I was 13. they told me she was going, but would not let me go- which for me, at the time, was a good thing. I think if I had gone it would have torn me up for much too long and it was best for me to not go- did i understand it at the time- not really, but I was grateful I didn't go after the fact. (got her when i was 3-my first memory that I have) But I was able to say my goodbyes before I went to school that day.

again, good luck and I'm sorry


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

Dooneysmom....very true. I am not even sure I can handle it, although regardless I will be there. I do not think my 2 older boys (youngest is too young) could handle being in the room, so my main thing to think about is when and how to handle leading up to that. I think being in with him is going to be torture for me and my husband to put it mildly and I think it would me much too much for my children to witness. Not too mention I can put on a strong face for Kaos and remain calm so that it will be in peace, but with my children in the room I assure that would not happen. The other night when Kaos couldn't get up off the floor, they were both in tears and spent the rest of the evening catering to him and babying him and watching his every move......so they are very close and tuned into Kaos and could not go with us.


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## RocketDog (Sep 25, 2011)

Far be it from me to tell you you don't know your own kids--you need to do what you think is best. _But..._

Seeing their mom grieve (which you mentioned you were worried about), could help them feel that their own grief is good and normal, and that it's ok to express it. Also, the actual act of putting a dog to sleep is really quite peaceful. I've been with 5 different animals and they all had the same effect--basically it is almost like going to sleep. (You'd obviously want to explain that some animals might lose their bowels). It might reassure them that they didn't suffer. One last thing, is, after you've explained all this to them, you might consider offering them the choice--sometimes we sell our kids short about what they actually can and will choose to handle. Being together might help them in several ways, including making them feel Kaos had his whole family loving him there at the end. 

Either way, I'm sure you'll find what works.


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

Rocketdog....very good point. Now I have a whole other list of things to discuss with my husband. 
Another question for you all....in the last 6-9 months Kaos has decided he no longer likes our vet (no problems for the 6 yrs prior). Our vet will not see him unless he is muzzled, because he does a lot of growling when the vet approaches him. So my question, should we look at another vet for the final appt (preferably a Lady vet, K prefers women) so that Kaos does not have to be muzzled at an already stressful time? Would another vet even perform such a service if we are not their clients?


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## Dooney's Mom (May 10, 2011)

I am sure another vet would do it just call them and tell them the situation, as you can see in prior posts some vets will even come to your house to do it (i wish mine at the time would have done it- i never thought to ask) You could also call your current vet and see if he has any alternatives/suggestions.


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## Freestep (May 1, 2011)

mysweetkaos said:


> Our vet will not see him unless he is muzzled, because he does a lot of growling when the vet approaches him. So my question, should we look at another vet for the final appt (preferably a Lady vet, K prefers women) so that Kaos does not have to be muzzled at an already stressful time? Would another vet even perform such a service if we are not their clients?


Depends on the vet; some vets will perform euthanasia without you being an established client, especially if it is an emergency situation. But it helps to get acquainted, if you're thinking about getting another vet. The last thing you want is more stress over an already stressful event. 

Another thing you can do is ask for a prescription of tranquilizers to take home. When the day comes, give Kaos a big dose about an hour before his appointment, and he'll probably be docile enough that he won't need a muzzle.


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## Daisy&Lucky's Mom (Apr 24, 2011)

mysweetkaos I do think they tell us and it sounds like Kaos is trying as always ,based on your posts, to make it easier for you. It is still a very difficult decision to make . My thoughts are with you and your kids.I also agree with Rocketdog


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## wyominggrandma (Jan 2, 2011)

Since I have had to put many of my own pets to sleep, and working for vets for over 35 years, I can tell you that growing up my parents told me what was going to happen and made it my choice if I wanted to attend the euthanasia. While my daughter was growing up, we did the same and she did attend an euthanasia of her pet. It was sad for all of us, but she wanted to be there for her pet.
I have helped in hundreds of euthanasias over the years and although it is a sad occasion and tears flow freely from the owners and usually the vet and the techs, it is a part of life that we all have to face. I would talk to the owners while the vet was drawing up the meds and would tell them that it was okay to stay with their pet and to not worry about tears or being upset. I also told them we totally understood if they did not want to stay while we gave the actual meds, but alot of times they would stay while we would give a sedative. It is surprising how many of the older children would stay the whole time, petting their pet and realizing it was peaceful and easy for the animal. To be honest, the one thing I would not do is what your vet suggested, tell them the dog got sick at the vets and died. At some point, they will realize what happened and might feel cheated and angry and hurt that they were not there for their dog and for themselves to feel they "helped" him go to a painfree place.
Now, if you feel they are not old enough or not able to handle it, at least tell them that you and your husband have decided to do the right thing by putting your family pet to sleep so he is not suffering any longer. Tell them how it will be done and that you will be there with him the whole time. If they insist on going(the older ones) then let them go, let them see what is happening and let them know its okay to cry, its okay to see mom and dad sad, and that, if they can't handle watching, its okay to go outside to the car.
As far as your boy not liking the vet, then don't use that vet. It sounds a bit like the vet is not a very compassionate person since he basically wants you to lie to your children about what is happening to your dog and not being truthful. I think that bothers me more than anything. Most vets will euthanize a pet, we do at our clinic, even if they are not regular customers, willingly if they see how the pet is and that is needs to be done. Also, most vets will prescribe a sedative to give an hour or so before the appointment that will make your boy more relaxed and less stressful for the procedure. Find another vet nearby, go talk to the vet or vet techs, explain what is going on with your dog and your vet now and then if you feel good, tell them when the time comes, you will be calling them.
You will know the time, when his life is no longer the same for him, when he is no longer enjoying the simple things in life, including eating, he will let you know. His eyes will tell you it is time to release him.


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## blehmannwa (Jan 11, 2011)

When Fel had her bad reaction to chemo, I contacted a hospice vet who does in home euthanasia. I really like working with a hospice model for Fel's end of life care. I was also able to use her service to have Crusher put to sleep at home.

When Crusher was put down, there was an initial injection and she fell into a deep and relaxed sleep in her favorite spot. My husband and I realized that we hadn't seen her so comfortable in years. She had no reaction at all to the fatal injection and passed peacefully. Our vet came with 3 assistants and handled removal and arrangements.

It took a lot of time and conversation to make the decision about Crusher. She was eating, drinking and continent with no personality changes but she was in pain most of the time. There was no line that she crossed but we knew that things would only get worse.

Now I'm still dealing with Felony. She has lymphoma, had a stroke, and now may have mast cell cancers. Her gut is a mess and she lacerated her paw. She's on chemo drugs, antibiotics, probiotics, immodium,aspirin, pepcid and benadryl plus topical stuff for her paw. She takes 10 pills a day. Most days she is fit as a fiddle. She sleeps a lot but she was the life of the party last night and never misses an event that may involve Pupperoni. We keep the hospice model in mind when making decisions...i.e. are all these drugs good for her in the long term? No, but there is no long term. This combo is working for her right now and she's "upright and sniffing the air." She still wags her stupid little pit bull tail in the morning and tolerates being nibbled by the puppy.


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

Wow! Thank you all again for all your advice and personal stories. They hurt to hear , but at the same time they are helpful. Thank you for sharing your stories, I can only imagine they are painful to tell. We definetely have a lot to discuss as a family. We are at the point, we don't know for sure if he's still in pain with his meds...but we do know for sure this will never get better, and I think that is what is making it such a struggle for me. SO much to think about and I thank you all for sharing your knowledge and experience. We do have another vet that we've met (she was the one who worked with the foster we adopted) maybe I will call her and see if she would be willing. Thanks again and my heart and thoughts to all of you who've been through this before.


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

OK....so I am pondering all of this info, balancing what Kaos is missing with what he still seems to have. Lots of thinking to do. In the meantime I am as always striving to make him comfortable. I just called the vet for some options. He has not gone the path of some meds before since they are not good for long term....I just talked to the vet tech, who is going to discuss with him some options, such as Metacam, Elavil and other options to use in addition to tramadol. As I said long term is not an issue at this point in my mind, but making him comfortable in the now is. So I will wait to hear back from him, I did express to the vet that we are getting to the point of looking at quality of life, but in the meantime anything we can do even short term is worth looking at. So I will let you all know what I hear from the vet.
Wyominggrandma...you are right on one account, our vet is by no means a "cry on my shoulder" kind of guy....but when it comes to knowledge and shooting straight he does that well. I like him for those reasons. Do I wish sometimes he was a more comforting type of guy? Sometimes, like now....but he knows his stuff (well except food, about which he commented if your dog tolerates corn based, why change)


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## mysweetkaos (Sep 20, 2011)

I just talked with the vet. I posted a new thread under the health section title Adequan...if any of you have any info on that course of treatment, I would love to hear. Thank you!


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