# Hi looking for a puppy (local) please!!!



## Mitchooooo (Dec 3, 2008)

Hi my name is Mitch, Im new on this site. nice people here. I live in east Tennessee. on the edge of North Carolina and Virginia. Hard to find a puppy ( male large bone) in this area, if you know of someone with in area, 100 miles or less, could you have them email me at [email protected] please!!! I would be so greatful.


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## emsoskar (Oct 17, 2008)

have you considered adopting a rescue? I live in the area as well, and I know of a great rescue group that I got 2 of my gsds from. One of the ladies that works with the rescue has puppies at times as well (from her own pair). I would be glad to put you in touch with her, as I know she is reputable and very selective about who her dogs go to.


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## emsoskar (Oct 17, 2008)

she lives in Greeneville by the way


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

I saw in another thread that you recently got a young female, Gemma (congrats on the new addition, by the way!) and you mentioned in that thread maybe getting a male in a few months as a "friend and mate". 

Are you looking for a male puppy to breed to Gemma???


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## Jazy's mom (Jan 5, 2004)

Hi Mitch,

I am based out of Knoxville, TN and do rescue. If you are interested in a rescue puppy, I would be glad to help you. 

I only know of one breeder in the Knoxville area and she breeds American show line dogs.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Lots of puppy mills in that part of the world.


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## Crabtree (Jan 6, 2006)

You could also consider adoption from a shelter. I live in Canada and drove down to Dickson Tenn in Aug to adopt Loki. Everytime I look at him I'm amazed at what a wonderful dog he is and how close he came to death. 
It makes me feel so wonderful inside. And I do know Loki knows how close he came also. He is a kind and gentle soul!


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## Mitchooooo (Dec 3, 2008)

Hi all......yes I got a new puppy Gemma an we are bonding, she is great. potty trained 95% basic training is done! This girl is so smart, Wow wow wow! that's all I can say. I want to bond with Gemma first. (very important) but in the future soon want to get a male pup. So she has a friend. I may breed her. I may consider a rescue, if the pup is young, not fix, an has papers. ( If the dog owner made the wrong choice, or cant handle the responsibility of the GSD pup, or the owner became ill, or something.) I do want a very young puppy, cause it will bond the best at a young age, with my family. thank you Amy an Sandra for your reply. An Sandra, Loki is beauiful puppy.


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## Mitchooooo (Dec 3, 2008)

Chris Wild, I might breed Gemma. Don't know yet. Hey where are you in Michigan? My sons live there, an I'm from Michigan. My brother lives in Gaylord.


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## Mitchooooo (Dec 3, 2008)

Emoore, Don't know about puppy mills, but ther is alot of pitbulls an boxers, in this area, I do know that!


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

hi mitchooooo and welcome to the board...gotta tell you that 'cause lots of us do so much rescue here, and others have spent much time studying bloodlines with improvement of the breed foremost in mind, we're all probably not gonna be too excited to hear you're considering breeding your gemma...and tho it may seem to you that it's really not our business, our motivation is only that we want what's best for this breed that we all love so much...it's so hard to know what will become of those little lives you create, when you only keep one. we all see the effects of too many shepherds here in our urgent section daily, and i respectfully ask that you reconsider your thoughts of breeding your girl.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Mitchoo, there is a right way to go about breeding and there is a very, very wrong way to go about breeding. If you're interested in breeding, we can point you in the right direction for learning how to be a good breeder, but please listen when we say that the path you're on now is the path to being what we all detest, a backyard breeder (BYB). First off, to ask for a RESCUE DOG to be unspayed so you can possibly breed it is a very bad idea and you will catch a lot of heat for that. Second, it is not a good idea at all to just buy one male puppy and then one female puppy to breed them later on without regard to how the pedigrees combine. 

Good reasons to breed Gemma: her physical conformation is close to the standard, her hips and elbows have been certified clear of any degenerative disease, her temperament is stellar, and she has been TITLED or PROVEN in some sort of work that tests temperament such as schutzhund or SAR or several activities like agility and tracking and obedience, plus the road to getting her titled has left you with no qualms about her temperament. If any of those are untrue, please do not breed her as we do not need more mediocre pets breeding. Yes, that was very blunt of me, but unfortunately that is the truth of this breed. There are lots of health and temperament problems in the GSD so to breed any that are less than stellar is doing a real disservice. If I were to breed GSDs, the last thing I would ever want to do to my beloved breed is to bring in more dogs that could possibly tarnish the breed's reputation further.

What do you plan on doing with Gemma that will help you learn as much as possible about her so that you can make a sound breeding (or not breeding) decision?


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## Liesje (Mar 4, 2007)

Mitchooo, my first two dogs were adopted at ages 3.5 and 1.5 year. Bonding has not been an issue. Actually, the puppy I got at 8 weeks is the one who runs up to everyone else to give them kisses! My female that I got at 3.5 years is the most tightly bonded of the three. So, age really is not an important factor in bonding. If the dog is the right dog for your family, it will bond whether it is 8 weeks or 4 years.


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## emsoskar (Oct 17, 2008)

Yikes! PLEASE don't breed her! There are soooo many dogs who are killed every day as a result from over breeding! Any reputable breeder has spent a lot of time and money educating themselves on the do's and don'ts of breeding the GSD. One of my males came from a "breeder" in the area who never took the effort to properly care for and socialize the dog, and as a result it has taken us A TON of work to get him to the point where he isn't terrified of every little thing! If you love gemma, why not enjoy her as a pet instead of as a way to turn profit? Why would you even want to breed her? I apologize if I sound rude or harsh, but my intentions are only to protect the GSD! (I am certainly not suggesting that those who ARE reputable breeders are in it for the money, as i know this is not the case!) 

Take a quick tour of the "urgent" section of this forum and you will realize how many dogs are in need of good homes! And, to agree with Liesje, 2 of my 3 dogs were adopted as adults(my other we got at 12 weeks....STILL not a young puppy!!!), and they have had no issues bonding! I really don't know why people have this mentality that the only suitable dog is a puppy! If everyone would get past that way of thinking, we wouldn't have so many back yard breeders and tons of adult dogs without homes. 

Seriously, if you ask me I would rather not deal with poop and pee everywhere, chewed up furniture and shoes, and ittle razor teeth knawing at every inanimate (or animate, for that matter) object in sight! 
Again, I really don't intend to sound mean, I'm just being honest!


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Mitchooooo.... we have many breeders on this site, and it would be great if you would join their ranks BUT it's a much harder path (to do it right) then I would be able to tackle.

If you ever have a chance to wander thru all the Rescue threads on this board, you'll see all the hundreds of wonderful GSD's that are in the USA right now, in shelters. Many who will be dead in the next 2 weeks or so cause there just aren't enough good homes for them. 

As a breeder, if I did chose to breed, the ONLY way I could 100% (and even this isn't 100%) know none of my future pups ended up in a shelter would be with limited registries and the Puppy Warranty/Guarantee/Legal Agreements that the puppy owners would sign saying that if there was ever a problem I'll take the puppy/adult dog back. No matter what. 

Because I personally would feel responsible, forever, for any life I put on this earth. And I also know there are presently enough of these 'responsible' breeders around I don't need to fumble along just breeding 2 dogs together cause I could. 

Hey, not saying you don't have the future goal of being one of these 'responsible' breeders (rather than the backyard breeders most dog come from). It's a wonderful goal for any breeder to have. Lot of work and responsiblity though, so nice to see you putting some thought into it now. With all the hundreds of genetic physical problems our breed has, added to the poor temperment issues (fearful? aggressive) the ability to research and select the BEST mix to have the best puppies is so important (speciallly if you know you may be getting them back!).

More info on the differences between backyard breeders and a responsible breeder can be found:

http://www.jlhweb.net/Boxermap/reputablebreeder.html/

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1448

http://www.paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETTIPS/DogTip_breedersandpetshops.php

http://www.wonderpuppy.net/1breeding.php


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Wow, for an example of how fabulous and beautiful GSD's end up in rescues and needing homes....

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=910702#Post910702


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## Keisha (Aug 1, 2008)

Any reputable shelter or rescue will not let you adopt a dog without it being spayed or neutered first for this very reason. Plus, it is NEVER a good idea (imo) to breed a rescue/shelter dog.
Emoore, I live in North Carolina and yes, there are a lot of puppymills in this area. And it kills me to go to the Urgent section and almost always see a GSD from here in there. 
Mitch, you are getting a lot of GREAT advice on this thread. If you are truly interested in breeding then you will do it the right way. It's hard work. It's not just putting two purebred dogs together. There is much more to it than that.


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## Mitchooooo (Dec 3, 2008)

Well, no I'm not a byb, my bitch has good papers, an has xrays for hips, so does her parents an grandparents. I agree to me temperament, is wot is important. The main reason I want a male pup is for companionship for Gemma. The pup I get, I would like to get, I would like to get, good papers also. Now this is if I DECIDE to Breed Gemma. Thats way way down the road. I do know that the bloodline is important, but the tempermant is wot is important also. O an I have been around the block once or twice.....lol My Max, which I had for 15 yrs, an has passed, She had good papers, had her bred once, by a great stud, with good papers.....than had Max fixed after that. I guess a rescue is out of the question, I thought if the owner of a pup, (with good papers) could not handle the pup. than I would consider adopting it. As far as breeding, I do respect your opinions, but DON'T ASSUME. please I will cross that bridge when I come to that, also I could do a stud service for Gemma if I decide too. I just want the pups to grow together, to have each other, for companionship for now!!! thank you for your comments, an I hope I did not upset anyone. Well taking Gemma to the park for a walk, got to run take care all!


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

Gemma is a PUP, no way to know that her hips are good. They can't be OFA'd until they are 2yo.

You say you jsut want a playmate for Gemma, do you have the capability to keep her and the male pup seperated for 3+ weeks when she is in heat roughly every 6 months so that she doesn't get pregnant?


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## Chris Wild (Dec 14, 2001)

"Good papers", whatever that means, don't make a good breeding dog. The dog proving itself to be of sound health and temperament is what makes a good potential breeding dog. Having a solid pedigree to back that up is important, but the dog itself is far more important than the papers.

If Gemma matures to exhibit excellent structure, passes all of her health clearances including OFA hips and elbows at 2 years old, (which as Tracy said, cannot be assessed in a pup of Gemma's age, so I have no idea what you mean when you say she has xrays for hips) and is thoroughly tested in temperament and nerve through a titling process, she may indeed turn out to be a stellar representative of the breed and be an excellent breeding candidate.

However if all that happens, the chance of the same thing happening with a male pup AND him being an ideal match in both pedigree and phenotype for Gemma is extremely unlikely and your chances for producing excellent pups out of Gemma would be greater if you researched studs available. There are many excellent studs in the country who can be bred to for the price of a puppy or two, and once Gemma has her titles and health clearances to prove breedworthiness, any stud owner would probably be happy to bred to her. Searching out the best mate for her amongst the large pool of excellent studs in the country is a far better option for ensuring quality puppies than is trying to raise a male pup yourself to be a suitable stud for her.

Raising a pup, any pup, to be a good breeding candidate and ensuring the dog is genetically sound in health and temperament through health testing and titling is a long, hard road. And more dogs end up being washed out as unsuitable breeding candidates (or would be if their owners truly cared about the dogs, the breed and the puppies produced) than go on to prove themselves to be good breeding candidates. Doing it twice at the same time, with a male and a female, AND having both turn out to not only be good breeding candidates but also ideal matches for one another in terms of genotype and phenotype is practically impossible.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Yes Mitchoo, no way your pup could have had her hips and elbows certified clear of any issues if she is under one year of age (Germany) or two years (if OFA). If it's PennHIP, I think there are different rules. 



> Quote:my bitch has good papers


Define "good papers." Just so you know, MANY poor dogs have come from breedings where the pedigree looked pretty good. Papers are a start, but breeding due to "good papers" is not a good reason to breed. 



> Quote:My Max, which I had for 15 yrs, an has passed, She had good papers, had her bred once, by a great stud, with good papers.....than had Max fixed after that.


Good breeders don't breed a dog once and then neuter/spay afterward unless there was good reason. If you are breeding to get "just one litter," that's a sign of a BYB. Again, if you want to do things right, we can guide you down the right path, but the way things are heading just doesn't inspire confidence. Do you really want to risk the health and life of your Gemma for just one litter? Do you know that she can die whelping a litter? We have a brand new member who joined saying they lost their bitch and now are stuck raising very young puppies. Are you prepared for that? Hopefully nothing bad happens but whelping problems happen more often than you think. Is your Gemma worth the risk? Are the resulting puppies worth the potential loss of your Gemma?

http://www.wildhauskennels.com/breeder.htm
This is an article about how to find a good breeder but when you read the article, you will realize what a GOOD breeder truly is.


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## Sarah'sSita (Oct 27, 2001)

I can't take you too seriously Mitchoooo. Dogs don't need other dogs to be happy and contented. If you are getting a dog to be Gemma's budyy, wait until she is much older, has all her training, manners etc. I would recommend 3 years apart. That way you have two dogs that have bonded to you and not each other. Plus you won't have to cry so much when 2 old dogs UPand die

Your motives for breeding are way off the mark. byb. Not for the betterment of the breed, but "I want a puppy"
Do your homework.
You won't find any support here for your breeding efforts. I also saw in your earlier posts that you had had you pup for 10 days and that she was now just 7 vweeks old! Some othe byb sold you a puppy that was 5 weeks old. INSANE!!!
I wish you all the best. And my typing may be in vain and wasted effort. Train your puppy, socialize the heck out of her with other pups like her. Let her grow up and hang out with with true breeders who truly care about betterment of the breed. DO NOT GET A MALE TO BREED HER YOU ARE MAKING A HUGE MISTAKE THAT FILLS MANY MANY SHELTERS AND iIMO PUTS YOU AS A BYB. And anyone willing to give you a male is a POS too.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

Mitchoooo,

If you are truly interested in breeding, don't bother with a male. Keeping a female intact with no male present is really enough. 

When you breed dogs properly, you will want to evaluate everything about your bitch: her head, her height, her slope, her depth, her tail, her feet, etc. No dog is perfect, so don't get hung up on perfection. First you want no disqualifying faults, white color, nose not predominently black, etc. Then you want to look at your bitch's weaknesses and find a dog that will complement her: you have an awesome bitch with poor feet. You want a dog with good feet. 

You do not want to over do it. If you have a bitch with not enough slope, you do not want to mate it to a dog with extreme slope because you will have a disaster. What you want is balance. You want to take a pretty good specimen, and build on that trying to improve. There is really no way to do this with a puppy dog. You do not know what your bitch's weaknesses will be yet, so you have no way of telling what your puppy will need to be. 

Much better to let your bitch grow up, and then pay a stud fee. 

When you think about it, even if the stud fee is $800. Break it down as to how much it costs to keep a dog:
Kibble, $45 - $60/ mo x 24 months = $1080 to $1440
Normal Vet care, puppy shots, yearly exam, no problems = $200 to $400
License fees, $10 to $20/yr x 2yrs = $20 to $40
Crate (the big one) = $100+
Puppy classes, Basic Obedience, Advanced Obedience, approximately $200-$400
Title entrance fees $75 (for three legs of a title if the dog did not NQ at all, does not include any of the associated expenses).
OFA Hips, Elbows, Thyroid, Cardiac, Von Wilbrand's Disease and Microchip = $600/dog. (Just did that on three bitches.)

Why not try a different route. Join a German Shepherd dog club. Get to know breeders who care about the breed. Volunteer at dog shows. Take your bitch to obedience trials. Spend the next two years making the proper contacts and studying dogs, and studying pedigrees. 

If you still think that your bitch should be bred. Then you will have the contacts to find a dog that complements her and pay the stud fee. You will then be at a better place to discuss your puppies with buyers and find them the best homes. If at that point, you decide your bitch is not what you want to base your breeding program on, spay her and get a promising puppy from someone that you respect in your club. It will be much easier to have two females with no resident male in your house. 

Good luck.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

One last thing, you may not be concerned with conformation because you are not wanting to breed show dogs. 

But the conformation of the dog is NOT about showing. It is about having a dog meet a standard so that it will be capable of doing the work that it was bred for. The slope in the GSD has to do with the gait that allows the dog to travel all day around the sheep. The compact feet is about having a dog that is capable of putting miles behind him. 

Conformation is also important because people want a GSD that looks like a GSD. And different lines look different and this is not to say that one is better than another. If you are looking at working lines, then you want to be concerned with the conformation aspects that pertain to the working ability of the dog. 

There is room in the breed for new breeders if they are dedicated to the breed. 

Good papers I am guessing are papers that are AKC and not to your knowledge false or with deliberate errors. AKC papers only try to assure that your dog is decended from other GSDs, no heath testing required, no minimum standard, no temperament standards. Their is no standard for breeding in them, in breeding, line breeding, out crossing, or which lines the dogs in the pedigree are.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Mitchoooooo, you lack the experience & knowledge to qualify as a 'good breeder' at this point. No insult intended there. That's true of me as well. Your bitch is still far too young to determine whether or not she should be bred.

IF you want to breed, please acquire the necessary knowledge, background & credentials to do it right. The breed suffers & dogs ultimately die when it's done irresponsibly.

When done well, it is unbelievably time consuming, expensive, emotionally & physically demanding. IF you truly hunger to breed, you'll have well defined goals for your eventual breeding program & clear plans on achieving those goals.

Reputable breeders can help & advise you when/if you're actually ready to plan towards breeding. That point is still years away.

Sarah, dogs might not *need* other dogs to be happy & contented, but they certainly benefit from them in many, many ways. Two pups are too much work & trouble for most people, but carefully adding an appropriate adult to the pack would be much easier & even more beneficial. Waiting several months might be advisable, b/c the pup is still new to the home & should have training underway before adding additional stresses & disruptions.


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## RubyTuesday (Jan 20, 2008)

Sue, terrific posts! I was slooowly typing while you posted those gems. I hope Mitchooooo reads your posts 4, 5, 6 times or more. They are spot on & invaluable whether he ultimately decides to breed or not.


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## katieliz (Mar 29, 2007)

broken hand and can't type much (maybe good thing?), so will just say, you can lead a horse to water...

wonderful, thoughtful, and caring (for our breed) posts though...


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## Mitchooooo (Dec 3, 2008)

Thank you all for your input, have a Merry Christmas an Happy New Year.


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## MaggieRoseLee (Aug 17, 2001)

Mitchoo..did you read these sites?

http://www.jlhweb.net/Boxermap/reputablebreeder.html/

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1448

http://www.paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETTIPS/DogTip_breedersandpetshops.php

http://www.wonderpuppy.net/1breeding.php 

If you read those sites, you WILL know the path to become a 'responsible' breeder. I see you did not yet, but that is fine. There's alot of information to absorb in them so taking your time is a good idea.

None of us say you can't be a great breeder. But what a 'great' breeder really is tends to be the sticking point. I know that my current knowledge of this is vastly different then what I 'knew' even a few years ago.


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## Keisha (Aug 1, 2008)

Mitchoooo, I hope you have a Merry Christmas as well. And I hope you don't think anyone here is being mean or anything like that at all. This is a great place with a lot of fantastic information. Everyone just wants whats best for you and your dogs. 
Like MaggieRoseLee, what I know now is so much more than when I joined earlier this year. When I first came on this board I was planning on just looking in the paper or finding a breeder and getting a puppy as quickly as possible. Now I know that I'm not ready to give a GSD what it needs right now, and I plan on waiting and finding a great breeder that will work with me and does what's best for their dogs and puppies they have, when I am ready.
Have a Merry Christmas and read and take to heart what everyone here says. Happy New Year!


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## Mitchooooo (Dec 3, 2008)

Hi went to a kennel today ...............OMG the place was discussing. Wot a joke. 3 people showed up, an the owner, did not show. His wife came out, She had no info, It looked like a giant byb. The dogs an pups were starved for attention. WOW WOW WOW!!!!! some were on big chains, like something out of a movie. The first thing my daughter said was daddy, I don't like this place. Looked at 3 pups all brothers, I would say 5-6 months old. I ask her if that was the father of the pups, driving in ( was at the gate driving into the entrance, beauiful blk an red....He was on a chain tied to a dog house.)...(stageing) an she said that they bought the three pups. Wow did not make sense. Then she said the one pup over in a different area..... was a show dog, the price on him was 1500 I took a closer look, an weird, he looked like he walked on his whole back legs. I thought the whole deal was very very unprofessional. The three pups had no names, is that right! He told me over the phone that they had their basic training. She put one pup on a leash, he would not sit....ect Their was rottwilers chained up everywhere, also one yellow lab in a pen ( he was aggressive) Well I did learn alot today! unreal. I'm confused, AN BYB ARE BAD. ( where pups come from a loving family, socialized with kids an you can meet the parents of the pups, an the people who are rasieing the pups. an see the living conditions. An also have good health records an good temperaments of the parents of the pups. An yes papers Akc of the parents. An witness the parents of the pups doing all the basic, commands. WOW I'm trying to be open minded here. An to see theirs alot of love an affection with the Dogs an pups in this family. O I know their is good kennels out their. But byb are bad......could it be also some politics in breeding, if byb breeder are bad, cause it takes away money from high dollar kennels. I do know you get wot you pay for, but if their is a bond with dogs pups an families, with byb, an kinda of bond with kennel breeders........who makes more money or wot is this world coming too. Animals need love an affection too, not just chain them to a dog houses, feed them, breed them, make lots of money, then when they stared to get old sell them off, or put them down. Wow! I had a bad experience today!!! (Sorry I am just venting) So sad. An my 10 yr old daughter was upset too, when we got into the truck, she said.....never mind, you fill in the blanks.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

That was a BYB/puppy mill. Just because an operation looks professional on the outside and has a flashy website does not mean it is so. You've found yourself a BYB/mill. 

You still have much to learn on what is defined as a BYB and what is defined as a puppy mill. There are some breeders of VERY nice lines out there with flashy websites and professional setups that really do fall under puppy mill or even BYB. These days, doing your homework on finding a good breeder is very involved and there is a lot to learn. We've given you plenty of information to keep on the correct path, just listen, pay attention, ask questions, and be open minded. Remember what you've seen today and, if you're still interested in breeding, never forget what you've saw so that you will never be like this so-called "breeder."


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## Cassidy's Mom (Mar 30, 2003)

> Originally Posted By: MitchoooooBut byb are bad......could it be also some politics in breeding, if byb breeder are bad, cause it takes away money from high dollar kennels.


Absolutely not.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I do not understand your need for another pup right now. Frankly, right now is not the best time to get a pup. I have pups available now (no males) but they are older pups and not bred to be "Ready for Christmas."

I am afraid a lot of what you find right now is what you have seen here. People looking to cash in with Christmas puppies. 

Breeders with more breeding dogs than they have space or time for, more dogs than they can possible keep track of the background, pedigree, individual performance and conformation. You have to wonder if they gave the bitches something to make them come into heat so that the pups would be ready now. 

I am not saying that it is not possible to find a decent breeder with pups at this time, I am just saying that it is not the best time to be looking for a puppy. 

I am glad that you visited this kennel though. Now you can see first hand what they are doing and this will help you avoid some of these things in the future. 

If you want to breed, visit as many places as you can. You will want to set up kennels and some place for whelping, and doing it right the first time is a whole lot better than working around the things you did wrong. I am not being critical. I designed and built my kennels and my whelping room. I wish someone would have made this suggestion to me. While I did not do a terrible job, there are definitely some things I would not have done or would have done differently had I the chance. 

Every dog owner should be conscious of things like the conditions of the place that whelped and raised their puppy; legislation pertaining to dogs, puppies, and transfer of ownership; proper veterinary care, nutrician, and specific problems within their breed; and the ever present problem of pets being dumped. 

Dog breeders need to be conscious of these things too from a breeder's perspective. On the one hand, there are lots of puppies born each year into conditions as bad or worse than what you describe. All of these puppies need homes. It is hoped that people will not buy the puppies and encourage the scoundrels to continue to breed. But this is really unrealistic. People will buy them because people see exactly what they are willing to see in many, many cases. 

On the other hand, those that breed understand that the future of our breed must not be left to the people that do not care about dogs or the breed. 

If you want to breed one litter out of your bitch, PLEASE spay your bitch before she gets pregnant. 

If you have a considerable sum to invest without hope of return on investment -- 25k to 50k; and you have the time and energy and persistance to become a master in the breed; and you have started showing or working with GSDs, you have some goal in mind for the dogs; and you are confident that you can provide for the puppies the best possible start, then it is definitely time to get started, preferably before you bring in any future dogs. 

Another thing that I would strongly suggest if you want to raise a litter of puppies, is to volunteer at a rescue or at the aspca to foster a pregnant bitch. This way, you are not adding to the pet over population problem, as you get valuable experience caring for a bitch and her litter. Other information you will gain will be in screening applicants for the puppies, dealing with the public and finding out first hand what people are most concerned with. 

People who are going through a rescue will probably be more concerned with temperament than with hereditary diseases, when you start fielding calls from people looking to by a pure-bred dog from a breeder you will have some different questions, but also many of the same questions.


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## DianaM (Jan 5, 2006)

Good post, Sue. I would also suggest finding a breeder in your area who has GSDs or a similar size/type of breed as a mentor; you can learn about developing an eye for structure, evaluating puppies, and experience much of what goes into selecting and pairing breeding stock, evaluating litters, mating and whelping, finding homes for the pups, etc.


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## Mitchooooo (Dec 3, 2008)

OK...
I guess I left out some details. Max my GSD I had for 15 yrs, I bred her, than got her fix BECAUSE the vet, said it would be the best thing for her, cause she had some female problems after the litter. That's the only reason why she was fix. ALSO I SAID I WAS LOOKING FOR A PUP. checking it out for the FUTURE, FUTURE, 6 months to a yr.......but also to start looking now to find the right pup for her (breeder pups parents the health tempermant.....ect) This is call shopping, NOT BUYING NOW........ lOOKING . Our bonding will take alot more time, (with Gemma) I know this!!! an if I start looking now, this will be best for Gemma, FOR THE FUTURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

What were your motives for breeding Max? Was Max shown? Titled?

What are your motives for breeding Gemma? What are your plans in terms of showing and titling Gemma? What are her bloodlines? What is the goal of your breeding program?

IMO it is very unlikely that you will find a top male that perfectly matches your breeding female in a 100 mile radius. Good breeders travel hundreds of miles for a dog suitable for their breeding program.


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

Didn't we used to have a "beating a dead horse" smiley?


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: EmooreDidn't we used to have a "beating a dead horse" smiley?


Here you go!


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Oh, my deepest apologies. I did not realize that only certain people are allowed to comment on this thread. 
Please let me know who are the selected ones who are allowed to get involved in a thread and how long so that I don't make this mistake again.

BTW, since the OP is not getting it, the horse is very much still alive, IMO.


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## BlackGSD (Jan 4, 2005)

> Originally Posted By: RebelGSDOh, my deepest apologies. I did not realize that only certain people are allowed to comment on this thread.
> Please let me know who are the selected ones who are allowed to get involved in a thread and how long so that I don't make this mistake again.
> 
> BTW, since the OP is not getting it, the horse is very much still alive, IMO.


I don't believe the anytone was talking about you (I know I wasn't.) just the thread in general. I appears to ME that the OP is not WANTING to "get it".


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## Emoore (Oct 9, 2002)

C'mon, Rebel, you're a pretty levelheaded person. My post wasn't aimed directly at you. The OP obviously understands our viewpoint (and as a rescuer believe me I share it) on breeding Gemma. He may or may not agree with us, but he gets it. 

Often on this board, someone will show up looking for advice on a variety of issues, mention the "B" word, and never come back after being overwhelmed by the strength of our convictions. 

This bulletin board has changed my opinions on a LOT of issues, but it happened over a period of months and years. People don't change their mind in one thread. I'd rather the OP stick around and learn, not get frustrated and leave.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

No, I think the beating the dead horse was for me and all my newsy replies. But at 8-9 this morning when everyone was sleeping, I had nothing better to do. LOL. 

Mitchoooo, I know you are taking what I said all wrong. Generally, people do not spend that last couple of days before Christmas checking out kennels where they do not intend to buy. In fact, if you showed up to my place on 12/23 or 12/24 with the intention to check me out for the future, I would probably be inwardly PO'd. Ya know we are people. We have lots to do during normal times. We bend over backwards for our customers, old and new and prospective. So it is not out of the ordinary for me to think that you were looking to buy a puppy. 

Lots of people go to "just look" and come away with a puppy for all the wrong reasons: ie. it was the runt, they were not treating it right, its mother rejected it, it was just so cute. 

Lots of people think they need a puppy for their other puppy because they will keep each other company. This is true, they do. Lots of times people come to the sight tearing their hair out about two puppies at once. 

Up to this point, the information that I posted here was provided for a person who might be willing to go into this thing heads up. It was not meant to discourage you or put you down, and I am sorry if that is what you think. You are on a GSD site, you should expect people to see red flags when you are out scouting puppy mates for your puppy instead of out checking out trainers, schutzhund clubs, herding opportunities, etc. 

When you are more experienced, you will know what questions to ask over the phone and NEVER end up at a puppy mill place like this one.


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## Mitchooooo (Dec 3, 2008)

O this is a great topic lol.......some on here said go check out a kennel, so went to the yellow pages, called some, left a mess. They called me back, set up an appointment. Now my daughter has vacation now, so went spent the day together. later I ask her if she wanted to go see some puppies, she said yes dad. so I took your advice an I went to check out a kennel. An some of you did tell me their was some bad kennels, an that is wot it was,( bad lol it was a puppy mill). SO i DID NOT HAVE NO intentions OF GETTING A PUPPY JUST SHOPPING. Now wot little girl does nont want to see puppies! O I do love this site....lol an thank you for your comments, merry Christmas.


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## selzer (May 7, 2005)

I think that if you want to be a breeder, you should check out kennels. The week before Christmas is a terrible time though. 

I am not sure how old your female puppy is, but you do want to be careful. Even if your pup is vaccinated, there are many things out there that do not have vaccines that you could transfer to your puppy. The young and the old are more likely to succomb to contagious diseases.


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## Mitchooooo (Dec 3, 2008)

So true, thank you Sue.


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## RebelGSD (Mar 20, 2008)

Selzer is right. If Gemma was 7 weeks old on Dec. 19 (according to your post), than you definitely should not be visiting kennels and other dogs at this time. It takes several series of vaccinations for your puppy to be fully protected. You can carry the parvo virus into your home on your shoes. 
BTW, a good breeder would not have sold you a 5-6 week old puppy.


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## BritneyP (Oct 26, 2006)

** removed by Admin**


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## Julie'somom (Jun 13, 2004)

Do I smell a troll? Or possibly a naughty elf? Something does not seem right about this conversation.
julies'omom


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